Curse

upier · Feb 24, 2010, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by syphonus

Et tu, upier?

As I said, I am in favour of daggers because (or better yet - when) they remove blocking out of the game. When you go against Lightning Reflexes or Escape the warrior is going to be in a bit of a pinch.

RhanoctJocosa · Feb 25, 2010, 01:35 AM // 01:35

i always run SoS rit with SoH + splinter wep (as well as smite hex & condi), LoD mo with small prots & mb ele.... with proper micro u never really have trouble with pve.

dslash + sy! owns too

syphonus · Feb 25, 2010, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

As I said, I am in favour of daggers because (or better yet - when) they remove blocking out of the game. When you go against Lightning Reflexes or Escape the warrior is going to be in a bit of a pinch.

I can't really argue with that, but it's the redundancy that bugs me.

The Mad Addict · Feb 27, 2010, 06:03 PM // 18:03

O so I will try a SoS Rit with SoH Smite Cond/Hex, a ER protter and what else will be good for some more damage?

Prayash · Feb 27, 2010, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mad Addict

O so I will try a SoS Rit with SoH Smite Cond/Hex, a ER protter and what else will be good for some more damage?

A Jagged Bones Minion Master

syphonus · Feb 28, 2010, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terek Zelta

My warrior with daggers tends to get marginally higher DPS than my sin with daggers, because my sin needs a zealous mod, while my warrior uses vampiric. It's reasonable to use vampiric on a sin, though, but even then, their damage will be roughly the same. My warrior tends to come out slightly ahead, because my sin's enchantments get easily stripped in the endgame areas, even with covers, it doesn't make a difference.

A sin with WotA can comfortably use a vampiric dagger, but I'm surprised that it would make that much of a difference. You did MoD tests? What skills was your sin using? MS does less single-target damage than JS/FF/DB; were you using that?

Which areas have you been having trouble maintaining Agility? I don't usually have problems with it; if it gets stripped it's most often recharged anyway, so I just put it back on.

I went back with a vamp mod and averaged 144 DPS on the Master over a few minutes, without buffs excluding the usual sin bar ones (Eye, Agility, WotA, Scan). Energy was a non-issue; I really can't see an Endurance dagger war doing better than that.

Xenomortis · Feb 28, 2010, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prayash

A Jagged Bones Minion Master

Not a fan of MMs for melee characters in H/H settings.

My basic hero setup for my melee chars is:
ER Hero with Smiting and Prot (SoH and hex removal + PS, SB and Aegis).
SoS Channeling Rit (with splinter weapon)
3rd slot depends a little. In harder areas a Communing rit with Splinter is good, but if it's an easier area I might just run something with more damage.
Although since the Rit Lord update, I don't trust heroes with it.

Smiter's Boon is bugged so Smiters are much weaker now. Orders is silly with only one physical (henchmen melee suck and only a handful of the ranged ones actually deal physical damage). A minion wall is near redundant with SY.

Daggers are nice, but a Warrior has his own things to play that are good and fine. Earthshaker in particular springs to mind, or just DSlash.
Running daggers on a Warrior just makes me feel like a weaker Assassin without adding anything else.

Terek Zelta · Feb 28, 2010, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by syphonus

A sin with WotA can comfortably use a vampiric dagger, but I'm surprised that it would make that much of a difference. You did MoD tests? What skills was your sin using? MS does less single-target damage than JS/FF/DB; were you using that?

Which areas have you been having trouble maintaining Agility? I don't usually have problems with it; if it gets stripped it's most often recharged anyway, so I just put it back on.

I went back with a vamp mod and averaged 144 DPS on the Master over a few minutes, without buffs excluding the usual sin bar ones (Eye, Agility, WotA, Scan). Energy was a non-issue; I really can't see an Endurance dagger war doing better than that.

My Asura rank isn't even close to being maxed (even though I'm a warrior - teehee) so I can't compare my numbers with yours.

I just realized, though, that my sin doesn't have any dagger mastery runes. D'oh! Sorry.

But their damage seems to be about the same regardless. My sin now gets marginally higher DPS than my warrior, and still uses zealous. With vampiric, it might be a difference of 10 DPS - nothing too bad, given my warrior's 100 AL vs almost everything, and his reliance on stances over enchantments.

EotN's Asura areas kill my sin. Anywhere with enchantment removal. Or I just fail to crit. I can't believe how many times Critical Agility has gone down just because I failed to crit. But I'm sure that can be remedied, I just don't main on my sin, so I'm biased by default.

I don't think sins are bad, though. It seems to be trendy to say sins are useless in PVE and they aren't, even dagger ones. But warriors are still pretty good at wielding them daggers too.

syphonus · Mar 01, 2010, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terek Zelta

snip

Yeah I understand. I'm at r3 Asuran on my sin and I really don't have the desire to grind it further; I have too many characters to bother with it. I'm done pissing about WE dagger builds-- they really just bug me because manly men aren't supposed to wield tiny knives and do flips and shit. They work, and it contributes to the war's versatility in areas they would otherwise have trouble with, like heavy stance use. That's good enough for me.

I used a minor dagger rune if you wanted to run comparisons, though the return on that is minimal I think.

You know, if you have problems maintaining Agility you should put WotA on top of Eye, just sayin'. I'm not trying to push my favorite undervalued sin elite or anything.

Terek Zelta · Mar 01, 2010, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Heheh!

It's true.

Manly men spec 15 tactics.

It's what I always say.

Kartacaster · Mar 01, 2010, 12:42 PM // 12:42

sabway
best

Voodoo Rage · Mar 01, 2010, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Very new to a warrior. I've been running around (normal mode, sorry...) with an ER Protter also bonding me with Protective Bond. Does the maintained enchantment count as an enchantment for ER?

I've also had my Rit spec smiting and keep SoH and Bathazar's Aura on me too (the hero seems to do fine using Spirit Siphon for e-management.

Any thoughts on Protective Bond and Balthazar's Spirit [edited]? I don't see them mentioned much.

Otherwise my necro is my 3rd hero running a minion bomber / curses hybrid build.

syphonus · Mar 01, 2010, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

Very new to a warrior. I've been running around (normal mode, sorry...) with an ER Protter also bonding me with Protective Bond. Does the maintained enchantment count as an enchantment for ER?

Only if it's maintained on their self. Maintained enchants on others don't count.

Quote:

Any thoughts on Protective Bond and Balthazar's Aura? I don't see them mentioned much.

PBond is used pretty commonly on human ER bars.

It isn't used often on hero bars, because they'll lose all their energy in an instant-- the AI doesn't recognize that they have to keep spamming enchants to keep it up.

Actually, I'd advise against PBond on even human bars for most areas in HM because you won't be able to keep it up regardless.

I'd say no Balthazar's Aura for the same reason; the only way to make a hero use ER acceptably is by making it almost fool-proof.

EDIT: Was totally thinking Balthazar's Spirit, sorry. Yeah, Aura is no good.

Axel Zinfandel · Mar 01, 2010, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

Very new to a warrior. I've been running around (normal mode, sorry...) with an ER Protter also bonding me with Protective Bond. Does the maintained enchantment count as an enchantment for ER?

Not unless the ER protter is maintaining it on themselves. maintaining enchantments on other people does not count as an enchantment for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

I've also had my Rit spec smiting and keep SoH and Bathazar's Aura on me too (the hero seems to do fine using Spirit Siphon for e-management.

Any thoughts on Protective Bond and Balthazar's Aura? I don't see them mentioned much.

Otherwise my necro is my 3rd hero running a minion bomber / curses hybrid build.

Balthazar's Aura or Spirit? Both are pretty bad for general settings. Aura causes scatter, and Spirit is only good on Bonders with Life Bond, and farming builds. In general cases, generally a waste of that character's energy.